The Bhagavad-Gita and yoga of awareness with Gabriella Nagy

“A yogi sees Me in all things and all things within Me.” Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita

The Bhagavad-Gita is an important Hindu teaching story embedded in the Mahabharata, an astonishing epic poem. Astonishing for its length- 100,000 verses– and for its beauty. Astonishing for the complexity of the social and spiritual world constructed in the poem and the exploration of the moral dilemmas we face while attempting to live our lives correctly.

In this episode, I take a look at the Bhagavad-Gita with the help of Gabriella Nagy, an embodied yoga instructor and yogic life skill guide.

Gabriella has a deep love for this story and far more understanding of the text. I’m grateful for her guidance through some of the puzzles the Gita presents and hope our conversation aids your reflections.

GABRIELLA NAGY is an embodied yoga instructor and yogic life skill guide who has practiced yoga and mindfulness since high school. She believes that yoga ultimately is the science of inner transformation and the first step is to purify our hearts so that we can see clearly.

Her unique teaching approach which she calls “yoga of awareness” is named to honor the main yoga that Krishna teaches in the Bhagavad Gita.Her classes support spiritual seekers longing to embrace yoga as a life skill and cultivate balance and strength on the mundane level as well as on the subtler realms.

Gabriella lives on the sandy beach of Baja California, Mexico with her multimedia artist husband and their four-legged chihuahua children Merlin and Maya.

You can find Gabriella at: www.yogaofawareness.com
Instagram: @yoga.of.awareness

Transcript of The Bhagavad-Gita and yoga of awareness with Gabriella Nagy

Hello, and welcome to Myth Matters, storytelling and conversation about mythology and what myth can offer us today. I’m your host and personal mythologist Dr. Catherine Svehla. Wherever you may be in this wide, beautiful, crazy world of ours, you are part of this story circle. 

Do we choose our life path or is it predetermined by some force, maybe what we call “fate”? Assuming there is at least an element of personal choice, how do we know if we are choosing wisely? Living the life that we are supposed to live?

These are questions addressed by the mythological traditions. A myth that always comes to mind when I think about these things is the Hindu story of the Bhagavad-Gita. This is an important Hindu teaching that frankly, I find a bit puzzling and challenging, so I’ve invited Gabriella Nagy to join me for an exploration of the Gita today. 

Gabriella is an embodied yoga instructor and yogic life skill guide. She has practiced yoga and mindfulness for decades. Gabriella believes that yoga ultimately is the science of inner transformation, beginning with the purification of our hearts so that we can see clearly. 

Her unique teaching approach ,which she calls “yoga of awareness,” is named to honor the main yoga that Krishna teaches in the Bhagavad Gita. Gabriella has spent a lot of time studying this story. I’m excited that she agreed to join us today.

Welcome Gabriella! thank you for joining me today.

Gabriella: Thank you Catherine, for inviting me. I’m so honored to be here. So happy to be here with you.

Catherine: I’m glad to have someone who has some expertise and also just a really deep love for this story. It’s one that’s fascinated me for decades.  I’m hoping that you will actually tell us the story. But first, I thought I would offer a little brief background on the story and the Mahabharata, which is the larger work that it’s part of, to provide some context for people who, you know, maybe don’t know what it is. The Bhagavad Gita is part of the Hindu epic the Mahabharata, and the Mahabharata dates back to the fourth century BCE, or even earlier. It’s the longest epic poem ever written. It’s like seven times longer than the Iliad and the Odyssey together, right. 

According to the tradition, the poem was composed, and I’m going to massacre these names but I’ll do my best, by Krishna-Dwaipayan Vyasa who dictated the verses to the god Ganesha, who wrote them down. Vyasa is also a character in the story. Now, do I have this essentially, right so far Gabrielle?

Gabriella: Yes. Isn’t that interesting that he wrote himself into the story? I love that. I know me too. Very playful. 

Catherine: Indeed. Yes, and it’s an extremely interesting story. There are a lot of subplots, and myths woven into it so it’s an interesting introduction to a big chunk of Hindu mythology. And there are also places where there are these extended philosophical discourses that are woven into the story. But the main thread of it, the main plot has to do with two branches of a family, the five Pāṇḍavas,who were the sons of the deceased King Pāṇḍu, and the 100 sounds of King Dhṛtarāṣṭra, known as the Kauravas. Now, I think I got close on the pronunciation there. 

Now, in this main plot these two sets of cousins, the Pāṇḍavas and the Kauravas battle for possession of the throne of their ancestral kingdom, the Bharata in northern central India. And I discovered that the English translation of the Sanskrit word Mahabharata is “Great Epic of the Bharata Dynasty.”

Gabriella: That’s correct. 

Catherine: Ah, very good. So, the main plot revolves around these two sets of relatives who were fighting for possession of this kingdom. And Krishna, who is a very important God in the Hindu pantheon,and often appears in Hindu myths as a hero, is in the story. And he’s in the Bhagavad Gita, which as I say, is a piece of the Mahabharata. 

Now, my very cursory understanding of the Bhagavad Gita is that it takes place on the battlefield. These two sets of cousins are, you know, facing off. And Arjuna, who is the oldest of the Pāṇḍava brothers, and the warrior among them, is in his chariot, and he has his charioteer or his assistant with him, and unbeknownst to him, that assistant is Krishna. And they have this very interesting conversation. I’m going to pass it off to you, Gabriella and if there’s anything, anything you need to correct in what I just laid out there, please feel free.

Gabriella: Well, one thing that came to me right away, so Krishna, we can call him Arjuna’s assistant but he’s more like his teacher. So Krishna is Arjuna’s teacher. He actually asked him— Arjuna actually asked Krishna, to please teach him. To help him what to do because he has a great crisis. And maybe I can, I can tell the story of how Arjuna ended up with Krishna being his charioteer, meaning Krishna is driving Arjuna’s chariot in the battle.

Catherine: Okay, that sounds good.

Gabriella:  Okay, so what happened is, at this part of the story, this is before the Bhagavad Gita starts, this is kind of like the end of the Mahabharata. And at this point, we have Duryodhana, who is representing the bad guys basically, to make things simple, and we have Arjuna on the other side, who’s representing the good guys. So, they both are gathering their allies and Krishna is a king in one of the neighboring kingdom. So ,they both go to him to ask him to be on their side, because Krishna has a huge army, and his army is so far undefeated. So naturally, they both want their army to be on their side. 

When they go to visit Krishna, Arjuna arrives first to see him and Krishna is resting, sleeping in his room. Arjuna goes into his room and quietly sits down at the foot of Krishna’s bed and waits patiently for him to wake up. Now, this is also a beautiful symbology showing the personality of Arjuna and the connection to Krishna. Because he is respecting Krishna, he is quiet and he sits down at the foot of his bed. He’s not approaching him directly. 

Not a moment later let’s say, Duryodhana enters into the room. Just opens the door and slams the door behind him and makes his way to the, let’s say chair, which is next to Krishna’s head. So, he’s very entitled. He’s very arrogant. He has a huge ego. And when he sits down and makes all these noise Krishna wakes up and Duryodhana being right there wanted to seize the opportunity. He states his case, “Krishna, we are here in this battle. Please be on my side. I’m right here. Choose me.”

And Krishna says like “wait a minute, I think Arjuna was here first because when I woke up you were just making your way to your chair. And Arjuna was already sitting. So, I’m going to give Arjuna the first choice to choose. What does he want? But listen to this. In this battle, I am not going to take up any weapons. I’m not going to fight. So, you can choose between having”–he’s addressing Arjuna.—“Arjuna, look there is this big army of mine, you know how many warriors and of horses, chariots, the war machine I have. You can have the whole big package,or you can have me. These other choices but know this, that I’m not going pick up any weapon in this battle, in these particular battles. So how do you choose? What do you choose?”

And Arjuna says, “Well, obviously, I will choose you, Krishna. “And of course, Duryodhana is very happy. He got the army and Arjuna has Krishna. And once again, this is another beautiful symbology. Duryodhanachooses quantity. And Arjuna chooses quality. 

At this point Arjuna doesn’t really know who Krishna is, that he is really an incarnation of Vishnu, the maintainer of the universe and even more basically, the highest reality. But he has a deepest longing, like a draw towards Krishna already without knowing. So, he’s ready, he’s ready to be, to have an open an open mind towards this reality. 

And what is another interesting fact and I’m going to give it back to you after, just wanted to wanted to share that Krishna’s name is a verb that means “that which attracts that which draws.” He’s representing our deepest self in the realm that we get drawn toward to when we ready. Duryodhana, obviously not ready, he has no clue, he has no longing to do, what’s moving toward this deepest self of his but wants to be staying on a surface reality and under force, the physical force. Arjuna is getting another force. 

Catherine: That’s really interesting. We’re going to get to the actual story in a minute and then, for those who don’t know the story, what I’m about to say might make a little, will make a little bit more sense, but no spoilers. The nature of Arjuna and how it is that he ends up with Krishna isn’t something that I understood until you shared this part of the story with me, and that makes it easier to move into the rest of the teaching. That’s really cool that Krishna is what attracts. It occurred to me to that what we’re attracted to really is a mirror. It’s like what we long for shows us who we are, for better or for worse. 

So, before we get to the scene that’s in the Gita, Arjuna and his rival have met Krishna in the form of the king of the neighboring kingdom, and Arjuna approaches with humility. And then ultimately he is allowed to make his request first and he chooses to have Krishna be with him in the battle rather than take the gigantic army. Okay, I’m with you. 

Gabriella: That’s correct. 

Catherine: Now what?

Gabriella: Well, the Bhagavad Gita, which is the sixth book in the Mahabharata, the opening scene in the Bhagavad Gita is basically when Arjuna asks Krishna to be his charioteer, to drive his chariot. And he’s asking him to, to drive him in the middle of the battlefield in between the two armies before the battle starts so he can survey who he needs to fight with who are the people on the opposing side. And he’s utterly shocked and to his horror sees friends, grandfathers, gurus, his teachers, his cousin’s grandsons, people who are dear to his heart, on the opposing side. 

So, he has a big crisis and he tells Krishna, that “I cannot possibly fight against these people, these people are dear to my heart.” And he says that his throat gets parched and his hair stands on end. And his bow slips out of his hand, and he just basically collapses at the back of the chariot and tells Krishna that he cannot fight. So, he basically has a crisis of dharma. He basically has a crisis of knowing what’s the right action, here to do. 

He has a responsibility for the maintenance of order, his responsibility of being the great warrior who he is to, to fulfill his  dharma, which is his own dharma. But he cannot do it at this point. And he fought many, many battles before. He even fought with Indra, who is the king of heavens and actually his father, and he never had a crisis like this. 

But at this point, he really, you know, starts on the hero’s journey, and he’s really ready for a bigger fight. That he needs help with figuring out what is the what is the right action, what is the right action for him to do in order to maintain the order of the universe, which is dharma, in Sanskrit word. So once again, he has a crisis of dharma, he is not ready to fulfill the dharma to do the right thing, obviously. 

So, Krishna is teaching him a yoga, which is yoga transforming him to be the right actor. And when we are becoming the right actors, we know what’s the right thing to do, whatever it is, however horrifying, we are exactly ready to do that. So that’s why it is a great yogic text, because Krishna teaches Arjuna different kinds of yoga poses. He teaches him, in essence, the main Yoga is the Yoga of Awareness, Buddhi Yoga, which is like the gathering forces of all other kinds of yoga poses. You can think of yoga in this sense as a way as a path as a method. 

Krishna teaches Arjuna different ways how to have a vaster vision, how to rise up above the physical reality of the battle. And what is even more interesting, at one point Krishna even shows Arjuna that all these people on the opposing side are already dead. They are already dead. Arjuna just has to be the right actor. Arjuna just has to like execute the action. 

Catherine: There’s a number of things you said in there that are really interesting. So, Arjuna has never had any problems killing anyone before. And here he is, in the chariot in between these two armies with Krishna– who he doesn’t really know exactly who Krishna is—but he knows he’s somebody, something. And he realizes that he’s going to be killing people that he loves, and says, “No, I can’t do it. “See, that’s one of the things that I find really interesting. I think in much of our content and lots of stories, that would be the awakening: “Oh, I’ve been making a mistake killing people.” But in this story, it’s not. And you’re saying it’s not because the role that Arjuna is supposed to play is the role of the warrior.

Gabriella: Yes, but I think it is an awakening because at the end he states, Arjuna states, that “I just remembered myself,” which means I remember my true self, I remember my role, I remember that I am an instrument in a hand of a higher force. This is one of the facts for me, it’s a fact that I really like to emphasize and engage with in my classes and overall in life, that we are here to be the instrument to a higher reality. This life is not just our own life, this body is not just our own body but an instrument to fulfill a higher call. 

So, when Arjuna at the end says that “I remembered myself,” he remembered that he’s a tool. He’s an instrument and he needs to do what he needs to do, no matter how horrible it is. And on that, on some level, this is really very hard to come in terms with. I like to think about the two sides as Duryodhana representing our conditioned self, that makes it a little bit easier for me at least, and Arjuna is representing the unknown, that we have to birth ourselves into that without our condition patterns.

Catherine: Right, I like that. I also find it really helpful to remember that I’m in something. I mean in this podcast, when I’m always saying “keep the mystery in your life alive” it means a number of different things but one of the things it means is “we’re in the mystery folks, like what we’re conscious of, even in our own selves, let alone what we are aware of, in terms of the grand scheme of things is so minuscule, it’s almost…” And we do an awful lot with it, so much with it, that we get overly attached to what we’re doing– human culture, our ideas, all the things that we’ve created and everything. 

Now, the reminder that Krishna gives Arjuna in the story, that’s the part where he says, “Look, it doesn’t matter in a way, it doesn’t matter whether or not you kill or these people die in battle, because they’re all dead,” meaning they’re all mortal. And so, you know, hey, they’re in the mystery, too. And I’m going to take them. I mean, isn’t that, don’t they have a conversation along those lines in the story? When Arjuna says “I can’t do it?” And I thought you said this when you were telling the story too–they’re already dead? 

Gabriella: Yes, meaning that yes, in the future. Yes because we’re all because they’re all mortal. I understand it in– and maybe we talking about the same thing, just using different words. The way I understand it, or it make sense to me, is that there is already this whole big mystery and we don’t understand what’s going on. But someone does and already created it, and is maintaining it. And we are little actors who have to fulfill this whole plan that is already decided, how is it going to go if you wish. 

We have choices to make on one level. But on a vaster level or higher level or more subtle level, we have to maintain this plan. We have to be the tool. We have to be the instrument to fulfill this plan. And maybe we get chances to fulfill this plan throughout different times of our lives or different lives of our soul if you believe in that, but we have to do, why we are here, why basically our soul agreed to be here in this body. 

And another thing that came to me while you were asking this question, so why you were bringing this point up, that Duryodhana and all the people on his side, they are there for selfish reasons. They are there to take revenge or, or wanting something to gain personally. And in order to rise higher or enter into a different reality, those qualities in us need to be killed. 

Catherine: Right, right. Also, I think that’s why–well, there’s probably more than one reason why– but you know, one of the things that I always find challenging about this spiritual conversation, and this notion that there’s a grand plan, the dharma, and that each of us has an individual role to play and everything, is that it’s revolving around a war, you know. So I think about the wars that are going on now, like all of the incredible things that are going on in the Middle East and all of that sort of, and it just doesn’t seem possible that could be part of some plan, or? I mean, I take it that you’re not saying that we know for sure that all of those people are fulfilling their dharma. Or what’s the response to that?

This teaching has endured for all of these centuries. The truth in it is something that each one of us has to think about, you know, and you don’t necessarily get to the bottom of it, but I am curious about how you, how you hold these realities, you know. What’s in the story and in your own practice, and what you see happening?

Gabriella: Well, first of all, the Bhagavad Gita is about a battle, yes, but this battle, and the word is yuddha can be translated as struggle, as well. So, the Bhagavad Gita basically was interpreted by most of the sages, as far as I know and as far as I heard from my teacher, who is the expert in this—his name is Ravi Ravindra—and so the yuddha, the battle, can be interpreted as a struggle and the Bhagavad Gita is interpreted by the sages as an internal battle, or internal struggle. 

So, while some people might be ready to go out and engage with the war that is literally going on right now, I find it very helpful to struggle within myself with these forces. And I believe by doing that, and of course, helping people around me to struggle with these forces, by that I believe that it’s going to radiate or ripple out. And the more people do this, the more this can ripple out. 

I mean, if those people who are fighting right now would be ready to read the Bhagavad Gita instead of fighting, or the heads of the countries would have been ready to engage with the Bhagavad Gita rather than fighting wouldn’t the world be a different place. 

Catherine: Yes, I mean, could you imagine if we were.. if, if before if, no, I mean, it’s, we’re laughing because unfortunately, it seems so impossible. But yes, if first of all, before anyone embarked on any great conflict, if it was “Okay, first of all, let’s spend three days with this story talking about it philosophically. And as you know, spiritually and taking it into our hearts, what would we do?” I guess maybe we don’t know what the big scheme is but we do all have a role to play in it. And one could say, well, the circumstances in the Gita reflect the times and the ongoing realities in the hearts and souls of many of us and who knows where the whole thing is going. 

Actually, that allows me to loop back to something that you said earlier about being a right actor and knowing that, and the yoga of awareness. Can you say a little bit more about that? I mean, it sounds like we need a way that we can know if we’re in alignment. And that that’s what you’re talking about. 

Gabriella: Yes. Yes. So, the yoga of awareness is buddhi yoga, the buddhi the word buddhi, is the same word as the Buddha just has a different ending, obviously, because the Buddha is the Awakened One, basically, the one who is aware, the one who is aware totally to the highest reality, if you wish. And buddhi yoga is causing us this awareness, to engage with this awareness, to become aware of what is really going on in our life inside of ourselves and there are different levels that you can touch in this and obviously, you will start where you are, start where you’re at…you climb the mountains, until you can climb the Himalayas. You practice first.  

So, basically caused us to become aware of what are we facing and what are the opposing sides? And in general, what is the opposing side is our small mindedness or if you wish to say “ego,” or constricted vision, and we are thriving if you feel the call to have a vaster vision. Ravi likes to bring this, my teacher likes to bring this example for that. There is a vision, for example, of a CEO of the company, if he wants to raise the value of the shares, he needs to take a certain action on the physical level, conduct some business, but what if that business is hurting the earth? 

So, in that sense, you become aware of, yes, on one level you’re doing the right action, but on the higher level, more global level, it’s not good, it’s not the right action. So, you build awareness–that’s buddhi yoga, but sometimes, there are, there are different components in the buddhi yoga, like an orchestra has different instrument. So sometimes they call in the flutes or drums or other instrument, and there are these different kinds of field guides that you can engage with. 

So, for example, there is the jnana yoga, which is the yoga of studying wisdom text, studying sacred literature, there is the karma Yoga, where you call to be taking action, there is the bhakti yoga, which is the yoga of love, the yoga of engaging with a higher reality, or the subtle reality from the heart, which I enjoy engaging with a lot. 

So, these are basically the different style or types of yogas in the Bhagavad Gita, under the umbrella of the buddhi yoga, the yoga of awareness. And as I said at the beginning, that’s why I named my yoga “the yoga of awareness,” because I feel that this is a really important practice that is not really out. You know, not many people know about it even, not many people emphasize it who translated the Bhagavad Gita that this is the main yoga. Some call it “raja yoga.” But never, most of the time never, bring the emphasis of how important this buddhi yoga, to engage with always being aware of ourselves, our actions, where our actions are coming from and where we are, where are we standing? And what do we need to struggle against. 

And just one more thing about the ego, this is another very important aspect that I like to emphasize on that the ego is needed, actually needed in a sense that we have to have force behind our actions. Madame de Salzman, who is Ravi Rabindra’s teacher, she has this beautiful saying that the ego, the ego is a good servant, but a bad master. So basically, we have to check, have to have the ego on the check so the ego needs to become our servant, and not drive the chariot like Krishna. Our deepest self, the highest reality needs to drive or chariot. 

Catherine: Oh, that’s beautiful. I love how you brought that back to the story. You know, as you were talking, I was thinking that it would be interesting for me to go back and read the Bhagavad Gita, knowing not only what you’ve shared about the story and especially about Arjuna’s preparation, and how we ended up with Krishna, but also everything that you just said about yoga. The popular view of it, as you said, is that it’s a series of exercises. And then there’s kind of this mindfulness or a lot of the practice of mindfulness and meditation has all been kind of collapsed into, watch your thoughts and get rid of your ego. And there’s so much more to it. 

And also, these different paths. Joseph Campbell talks about that, too, in some of his books. In fact, in one of his essays in The Myths to Live By book that I did the study guide on, he talks about the different kinds of yoga. It’s really cool. There are a variety of paths or approaches, and you can pick one based on your personality or predilections or dharma, I guess. There’s the path of love, the path of action, the path of wisdom, just as you said. Thank you for bringing that into all of this. 

I want to take a break and make my announcements and everything before I ask you my last question, but is there anything else that you want to say about the Bhagavad Gita and our theme here of dharma and faith? 

Gabriella: No, I’m good. Not at this moment. Thank you for bringing that to my awareness that even Joseph Campbell wrote on the different kinds of yoga, I have to look into that.

Catherine: Yes, he was mentored by Heinrich Zimmer, who was a very famous scholar of Hinduism and Eastern traditions. Campbell had a very, very deep love for Hindu mythologies. 

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So now, all right, Gabriella, you got a moment of rest and I’m coming back to you. I so appreciate the insights that you’ve shared into the Bhagavad Gita and into the yoga of awareness. Here’s my last question for you for today. Actually, I guess it’s two questions. What value do you see in working with stories as part of your practice? And is there a favorite story that speaks to you?

Gabriella: There is so much value to work with the Bhagavad Gita really. I’m mentioned a few I think. I especially like the visuals, the visuals of the story helped me a lot to become aware of my inner reality and what’s going on. Are my senses driving the chariot? Or, can I take a step back and not have that second slice of chocolate cake, because it’s good enough, a few minutes later, you know, just simple as that, and up to the reality of us passing away and friends, family passing away. It gives me some help to come to terms with those things, and gives me a little comfort, that this is not just it, that there is continuation even when we can see it with our fleshly eyes. But we can work on open our divine or spiritual eyes and, and, and trust and have faith that this was not just all for vain. And everything is as it should be.

Catherine: Is there a story besides the Bhagavad Gita that you turn to?

Gabriella: Oh, I love the Ramayana. I love the stories of Rama. I love Hanuman who is one of the main characters.  I love his playfulness and his struggle. That’s the story.

Catherine: That’s a monkey right, Hanuman? 

Gabriella: Yes, Hanuman is a monkey in his stories. Rama actually was one of the main characters, another incarnation of Vishnu as Krishna is, that’s another time when he took a human body and became an avatar as Rama. And this story is very connected with the bhakti tradition, the yoga of love and devotion. And as you know, I just…

Catherine: Yes, I know you do. I guess I’m not surprised. The Ramayana? Well, we might have to talk about that at some point. There is a grand love story in there. And the monkey, I like Hanuman too. Well, so thank you. Thank you so much, Gabriella, for joining me today. 

Now listener. I encourage you to investigate Gabrielle’s yoga classes. They are a testament to her lifelong pursuit of the sacred and as you can tell, she goes beyond practicing the asanas. She incorporates mental, emotional and physical exercises, along with sharing the wisdom teachings of the Indian tradition to support students to align with the subtle force of nature. Her classes support spiritual seekers longing to embrace yoga as a life skill and cultivate balance and strength on the mundane level, as well as the subtle realms. It’s beautiful work. 

You can find Gabriella at www yogaofawareness.com. and she’s also on Instagram @yoga.of.awareness. Those links will be posted with the transcript of this episode. 

In closing, if we have a better understanding of our need for myth, and all our old stories offer, we can live more satisfying lives. We can inhabit a better story and create a more beautiful, just and sustainable world.

And that’s it for me, Catherine Svehla and Myth Matters. Thank you so much for listening. Take good care of yourself and until next time, keep the mystery in your life alive.

Gabriella’s favorite translation and guide: The Bhagavad Gita – A Guide to Navigating the Battle of Life by Dr. Ravi Ravindra

English translation of the Mahabharata: A Modern Retelling by Carole Satyamurti